diff --git a/wexpect/console_reader.py b/wexpect/console_reader.py
index 3f67777..5d68647 100644
--- a/wexpect/console_reader.py
+++ b/wexpect/console_reader.py
@@ -80,8 +80,8 @@ class ConsoleReaderBase:
     This class initialize the console starts the child in it and reads the console periodically.
     """
 
-    def __init__(self, path, host_pid, cp=None, window_size_x=80, window_size_y=25,
-                 buffer_size_x=80, buffer_size_y=16000, local_echo=True, interact=False, **kwargs):
+    def __init__(self, path, host_pid, tid=None, cp=None, window_size_x=80, window_size_y=25,
+                 buffer_size_x=80, buffer_size_y=16000, local_echo=True, interact=False, just_init=False, **kwargs):
         """Initialize the console starts the child in it and reads the console periodically.        
 
         Args:
@@ -117,6 +117,16 @@ class ConsoleReaderBase:
             except Exception as e:
                 logger.info(e)
                 
+        if just_init:
+                self.initConsole()
+                si = win32process.GetStartupInfo()
+                self.__childProcess, _, self.child_pid, self.__tid = win32process.CreateProcess(None, path, None, None, False, 
+                                                                             0, None, None, si)
+                self.child_process = psutil.Process(self.child_pid)
+                
+                logger.info(f'Child pid: {self.child_pid}  Console pid: {self.console_pid}')
+                time.sleep(5)
+                return
         try:
             self.create_connection(**kwargs)
             logger.info('Spawning %s' % path)
@@ -378,7 +388,6 @@ class ConsoleReaderBase:
         logger.spam('cursor: %r, current: %r' % (cursorPos, self.__currentReadCo))
         
         raw = self.readConsole(self.__currentReadCo, cursorPos)
-        logger.debug('Read: %r' % raw)
         rawlist = []
         while raw:
             rawlist.append(raw[:self.__consSize.X])
@@ -409,6 +418,8 @@ class ConsoleReaderBase:
                 # Detect changed lines
                 self.__buffer.seek(pos)
                 buf = self.__buffer.read()
+                logger.debug('buf: %r' % buf)
+                logger.debug('raw: %r' % raw)
                 if raw.startswith(buf):
                     # Line has grown
                     rawslice = raw[len(buf):]
diff --git a/wexpect/legacy_wexpect.py b/wexpect/legacy_wexpect.py
index de5b9a8..eba4d18 100644
--- a/wexpect/legacy_wexpect.py
+++ b/wexpect/legacy_wexpect.py
@@ -1131,31 +1131,31 @@ class Wtty:
             
         logger.info(f"Fetch child's process and pid...")
         
-        while True:
-            msg = win32gui.GetMessage(0, 0, 0)
-            childPid = msg[1][2]
+#        while True:
+#            msg = win32gui.GetMessage(0, 0, 0)
+#            childPid = msg[1][2]
             # Sometimes win32gui.GetMessage returns a bogus PID, so keep calling it
             # until we can successfully connect to the child or timeout is
             # reached
-            if childPid:
-                try:
-                    self.__childProcess = win32api.OpenProcess(
-                        win32con.PROCESS_TERMINATE | win32con.PROCESS_QUERY_INFORMATION, False, childPid)
-                    self.__conProcess = win32api.OpenProcess(
-                        win32con.PROCESS_TERMINATE | win32con.PROCESS_QUERY_INFORMATION, False, self.conpid)
-                except pywintypes.error:
-                    if time.time() > ts + self.timeout:
-                        break
-                else:
-                    self.pid = childPid
-                    break
-            time.sleep(.05)
+#            if childPid:
+#                try:
+#                    self.__childProcess = win32api.OpenProcess(
+#                        win32con.PROCESS_TERMINATE | win32con.PROCESS_QUERY_INFORMATION, False, childPid)
+        self.__conProcess = win32api.OpenProcess(
+            win32con.PROCESS_TERMINATE | win32con.PROCESS_QUERY_INFORMATION, False, self.conpid)
+#                except pywintypes.error:
+#                    if time.time() > ts + self.timeout:
+#                        break
+#                else:
+#                    self.pid = childPid
+#                    break
+#            time.sleep(.05)
             
         logger.info(f"Child's pid: {self.pid}")
         
-        if not self.__childProcess:
-            logger.info('ExceptionPexpect: The process ' + args[0] + ' could not be started.')
-            raise ExceptionPexpect ('The process ' + args[0] + ' could not be started.') 
+#        if not self.__childProcess:
+#            logger.info('ExceptionPexpect: The process ' + args[0] + ' could not be started.')
+#            raise ExceptionPexpect ('The process ' + args[0] + ' could not be started.') 
         
                                                                                                               
         
@@ -1225,7 +1225,7 @@ class Wtty:
                                         ' '.join(pyargs), 
                                         f"import sys; sys.path = {spath} + sys.path;"
                                         f"args = {args}; import wexpect;"
-                                        f"wexpect.ConsoleReader(wexpect.join_args(args), {pid}, {tid}, cp={cp}, logdir={logdir})"
+                                        f"wexpect.ConsoleReaderPipe(wexpect.join_args(args), {pid}, {tid}, cp={cp}, logdir={logdir}, just_init=True)"
                                         )
                                         
         logger.info(f'CreateProcess: {commandLine}')
@@ -1604,7 +1604,7 @@ class Wtty:
         finally:
             self.switchBack()
     
-    def isalive(self, console=False):
+    def isalive(self, console=True):
         """True if the child is still alive, false otherwise"""
         
         if console: